WHY JUDGE THE JUDGER?

From Barry (Bears) Neil Kaufman:
Even if its yourself. We judge to take care of ourselves but it lands us in the most uncomfortable of places. When we judge, we usually blame, close ourselves off and become righteous. The alternative: acceptance (which isn't permission or inaction)-- it's being open to understand. It's fuels inner peace and health...allows us TO KEEP OUR EYES AND MINDS WIDE OPEN and be more useful. Love, Bears
Joyce Vigh StrandThank you, Bears. I have used this recently working with a person who is not reliable. When I were judging I got confused and frustrated. When I'm not spending my energy on judging him - I am more clear, and I get all agreements in writing and with more details. I used to prefere "no paper work" - but with people who tends to have a different memory than I - I do like to write down our agreements. This is just assessing not judging.Jeannie ReidBears, a big turning point for me was last fall, while taking some programs (I think Radical Authenticity and Son-Rise Max. Impact), I decided to stop judging MYSELF. I had already let go of judging others, and somehow left myself for last. And yes, I am indeed more open, peaceful and useful, and happy too. So... loving myself, loving others, and loving life---and that feels wonderful!
Larry BaxterI suggest the key in how we analyse, and ultimately judge whatever, (everything,) and the effect it fascilitates for us, is determined by the quality of our attitude and beliefs. Bears suggests, "When we judge, we usually blame, close ourse...lves off and become righteous." the key word in this is 'usually,' meaning not always. The issue of awareness of what we are doing to ourselves with the quality our choice of analysis can lead us either towards accepting responsibility or blaming externals for the quality of our experience. imho :)

Judy MeyersYou are so right! Judging just keeps us stuck in limiting beliefs. Acceptance on the other hand opens us up to understanding, compassion, and allowing others to be who they are and us to be who we are...So much nicer! I am learning! Thank you! Love, Judy
Pessy GoldmanI wish they had bumper stickers this big! then again I guess that's what FB is for ;) lol. I love what you wrote in parenthesis Bears. I'm keeping it in CAPS in my head!
Alison Sharpe TaylorHmmm, acceptance is being open to understanding. I'm not sure about this - I don't see how it works for not judging other people because we dont usually get to find out why other people do things. So we are left with trying to understand wi...thout any knowledge, so are you saying that understanding another person is like giving them the benefit of the doubt, that in some way they had a need to take care of themselves and so they did what they did for that reason? I don't see how people who commit crimes against chldren are taking care of themselves as a child hardly poses a threat. I totally see that not judging is a better place to be for ourselves as it leads to inner peace, but I'm not sure what there is to understand.
Joyce Vigh StrandAs I see it, you don't need to understand people in order to stop judging them. How does judging someone protect you or your child? Judging a drunk driver doesn't prevent an accident - taking his car key might prevent one.
Alison Sharpe TaylorJudging someone does't protect anyone or prevent anything as we usually judge when it is too late for anything else. I'm sure that some people can just decide to drop judgements - which is great for them. But what about those people who find that a challenge - is there another way?
Dolores GriffithsThe best way to stop judging, I think, is to consider that the very things we judge others on, we are guilty of ourselves. We expect people to be perfect, and when we accept that we ourselves aren't perfect then we can accept imperfection ...in others. We have a tendency to impute motives to others, which are really our own, and when we take the actions of others less personally (get ourselves out of the centre of attention) and realize that sometimes others act without thinking, and none of their actions are against us personally - ie - they acted in their own self-interest, unaware that their actions might be affecting someone else, - then and only then will we be able to stop judging. We need to stop thinking so highly of ourselves and start esteeming others better.
Alison Sharpe TaylorOk, so how would you go about esteeming the mugger, the child molester, the rapist, murderers, etc.
Joyce Vigh StrandAlison, I'm looking so much forward to meeting you in November - I'm sure you can set the group on fire!
Calling the nobel prize winner a good man is just as much a judgement as calling a murderer bad.
Alison Sharpe TaylorHere's a thought, is there a difference in whether we judge the person as bad or the deed as bad. Is Bears saying that to drop a judgement means to not judge people as being bad or to not judge deeds as bad or both. I can see a way to not judging a person as bad in the way that Dolores is suggesting but somethings that people do are hard to see in any other light other than bad.
Joyce Vigh StrandA bad action sounds like an action you do not want. Why focus on the actions you do not want? what is better: run away from violence or run towards love?
Dolores GriffithsI understand what you are asking Alison. I was referring more to our actions and reactions to people we meet on a daily basis.

However, we can still be nonjudgemental of those who commit violent acts, because we do not know what percipitated those acts.

I am not suggesting that they not receive the consequences of their actions, because surely they will. But can we still love them. Love sometimes means we have to be tough so that the greater good is accomplished. We can be tough with compassion and a willingness to understand what the root causes were for someone to become violent, and with that mindset help them discover those issues for themselves so change can come from within themselves. It is a long slow process and will require much patience, but I believe achievable if society on a whole can deal more compassionately.

The compassion we show in prisons today is not the type I'm referring to because giving prisoners rights without responsiblity is tantamount to spoiling them and thus perpetuating their nonsocial behaviours. We need a total revamp of the whole system.
Alison Sharpe TaylorI totally agree Dolores, except that in order for some acts to carry consequences, someone has to draw a line in the sand and say that these behaviours carry consequences and these others don't which essentially means someone has to judge o...ne behaviour as acceptable and other behaviours as unacceptable and therefore worthy of consequences. Which then means I guess, that we could choose if we want to, to leave the judging to other people and not judge ourselves. Except that in some circumstances where the perpetrator gets away scot free, their actions have no obvious consequences. There is also a prevailing belief that people who commit violent crime do so because of some sadness or challenge in their lives, like that excuses it. Not everyone who is a victim of violent crime goes on to commit a crime themselves, most continue as law abiding citizens, because even though they were a victim themselves they know not to do that to omeone else. I really hope that the understanding that you are refering to is out there to help people make different non-violent decisions,but I don't think that a past challenge is the only reason that people do these things.
Larry BaxterIs it just me? Whenever the discussion centers around Judging, I end up scratching my head a lot. It seems the action of judging anything or anyone gets blankedly all rolled up as being less than desired, or lacking usefulness. For me there... are all kinds of flavors and temperatures of Judgement. They can be charitable, or as often is the case, uncharitable...but my point is all judgements are not necessarily uncharitable, or unkindly, or an attempt to avoid responsibility. Yes, I agree that choosing to be non-judgemental, is an excellent method of remaining neutral, as if from another planet, as in not choosing to pretend to know anything because of ones choice to not interpret anything personally.....just be present to fascilitate another's personal exploration of their own judgement or make up of whatevers. love on...;)

Dolores Griffiths
We can have judgement without being judgemental. It really is much as God looks down upon us. He allows us to suffer the consequences of our actions until we come to Him and ask Him to forgive and then to change us. Because God continued... to love us even in our acts of violence (any act done without consideration and love for another and which He calls sin) He is there for us when we invite Him to be a part of our lives, otherwise He just lets us be.

We can't help a criminal change until he first confesses that his acts were wrong and then asks for forgiveness and help to change. If we are judgemental of the criminal we won't even give him a chance to ask for forgiveness or help to change. It has to start somehwhere.
Bears Barry Neil KaufmanHi, Sweet People: I am so delighted to read all your varied thoughts...and take in the soul-searching and self-reflections shared during this discussion. To be open, to be curious (or fascinated) by how we all have designed ourselves and ou...r belief systems, to be easy and expansive in sharing our ideas and listen to others share theirs (even if adversarial) creates an opening for enhanced expressions of our humanity. Judgments tend to narrow our vision. Assessments (big, tall, hard, soft) are more useful than judgments of good/bad and right/wrong, especially bad and wrong. In an exaggerated form, bad becomes evil. And when folks judge others as evil, that self-righteousness leads to genocide, retaliation and war. Again, to be accepting doesn't mean not to take action: to protect someone in harm's way or limit the movements of someone bend on doing violence. We can even confine someone based on certain agreed upon standards without first needing to judge and be vindictive in any way. Seek to understand rather than judge. Seek to love rather than requiring others to love us. Bears
Larry BaxterBears, I loved the story you shared of visiting with the fella that beat his children, and how you suspended judging him critically, and instead accepted that he did what he did for what he believed was the best of intentions, and when you were with him, without requiring him to defend himself or admit he was wrong, he discovered his freedom to explore different approaches of communicating his 'love.' Thank you for sharing the lessons you have learned....bw
Jan Johnson SarboraHow about if "I don't like" or "I do like" something? But even that can be just an assessment of my desires. I like being curious and not judging - it does allow for expansiveness. So why do I judge so much? I do close myself off and it do...esn't feel good. Ah, but maybe I judge when I don't give myself the right to have my "wants". Is disliking something akin to judging?

What if I don't like a child being tied to a chair as part of a therapy...am I judging if I don't like it? Except I would be judging the person who did the tying. Unless that person was a child tying another child - because I would believe the child tying didn't know better. But I'm assuming an adult, especially a therapist should know better. But what's "better" anyhow? I guess that assumes I know better. Ah....
Dolores GriffithsHmmm, yes all very interesting. I'm wondering tho' if maybe we just concentrated in our corner of the world - and change the world one relationship at a time .....
Larry Baxterahh yes, indeed isn't that all any can do? Each and every relationship one focuses on, one by one, and discovering the possible joy from being responsible for the flavor of our experience? whilst playfully encouraging others to realize their own possibilities......love on bw